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Team Help
Raikt:
--- Quote from: genbor on April 28, 2011, 12:37:49 PM --- I would say Metagross, and Breloom
--- End quote ---
I'm going to assume this is for OU, and as such I won't mention any Ubers or clearly UU Pokemon that wouldn't fit a role you need.
Firstly, I wouldn't use Metagross on my team, if I was using your set up. Namely because, unless you are running Balloon on your Excadrill, your entire team is hit neutrally or SE by any ground type moves. So, in essence, you have a huge hole to pretty much every team out there.
Breloom may be a respectable choice, as he resists Earthquake, but he also adds yet another Fire weakness to your line-up. If you use either Metagross or Breloom, that will put you at half your team being ripped apart by any offensive 'mon with a Ground of Fire type move. (Pretty much any sweeper out there.)
With Swampert, you do have good synergy with weaknesses in regard to Ferrothorn. However, three of them are still hit hard by Grass type attacks. Assuming, for the moment or until you correct me, that you want those Pokemon to stay and only want suggestions on the last two, then, I would have to nominate a ghost. Practically every team I have has at least some form of ghost type on it.
The best choices for SS would most likely be either Dusknoir (Dusclops if you want a flat out wall with the Evolite stone). I know a few who have used Spiritomb successfully in OU, but I've, personally never had any luck with it. Gengar or Rotom wouldn't be bad choices for quick and heavy revengers who like to switch in on immunities, but be warned that in Gen 5 rotom loses his Ghost typing. (Personally, I'd swap Swampert out for his Water form if you find Swampert not working to your liking.)
I've also seen Zapdos used really well on SS teams, if you have no mind about using Legendaries. I also tried out some really successful set ups around Heatran (Tormentran) and quite a few other defensive types into a successful Sand Stall, if you set up your typing properly.
Hopefully that gave you a few ideas, and I'll leave you with a final bit of thought: not every 'mon on a SS team has to be immune to SS. That's the fun bit, as long as you have T-tar or Hippowdon, it's technically a SS team.
--- Quote from: Mr._Rex on April 28, 2011, 10:36:21 PM ---garchomp with sand veil. Trust me. it is very hard to take down, give it a yach berry jolly nature 252 attack and speed, swords dance, EQuake, SE, and a filler move. I tend to use Fire fang.
--- End quote ---
I'd be the first to agree that Garchomp is OP and deserves a slot on any SS team, but in this scenario, without reworking how it is, that will just open up his weakness line-up even more. I've always been a strong core builder. (Usually consisting of a balanced Water, Fire, Grass defensive.)
SS teams tend to be really bulky and either good at throwing around huge hits or wearing down foes. Garchomp preforms the former well, but wouldn't add much to the team outside of some powerful hits. (Already easy accomplished by Excadrill, who frankly has an easier time with a Balloon equipped.)
Viper:
--- Quote from: Raikt on April 29, 2011, 12:19:19 AM ---
--- Quote from: genbor on April 28, 2011, 12:37:49 PM --- I would say Metagross, and Breloom
--- End quote ---
I'm going to assume this is for OU, and as such I won't mention any Ubers or clearly UU Pokemon that wouldn't fit a role you need.
Firstly, I wouldn't use Metagross on my team, if I was using your set up. Namely because, unless you are running Balloon on your Excadrill, your entire team is hit neutrally or SE by any ground type moves. So, in essence, you have a huge hole to pretty much every team out there.
Breloom may be a respectable choice, as he resists Earthquake, but he also adds yet another Fire weakness to your line-up. If you use either Metagross or Breloom, that will put you at half your team being ripped apart by any offensive 'mon with a Ground of Fire type move. (Pretty much any sweeper out there.)
With Swampert, you do have good synergy with weaknesses in regard to Ferrothorn. However, three of them are still hit hard by Grass type attacks. Assuming, for the moment or until you correct me, that you want those Pokemon to stay and only want suggestions on the last two, then, I would have to nominate a ghost. Practically every team I have has at least some form of ghost type on it.
The best choices for SS would most likely be either Dusknoir (Dusclops if you want a flat out wall with the Evolite stone). I know a few who have used Spiritomb successfully in OU, but I've, personally never had any luck with it. Gengar or Rotom wouldn't be bad choices for quick and heavy revengers who like to switch in on immunities, but be warned that in Gen 5 rotom loses his Ghost typing. (Personally, I'd swap Swampert out for his Water form if you find Swampert not working to your liking.)
I've also seen Zapdos used really well on SS teams, if you have no mind about using Legendaries. I also tried out some really successful set ups around Heatran (Tormentran) and quite a few other defensive types into a successful Sand Stall, if you set up your typing properly.
Hopefully that gave you a few ideas, and I'll leave you with a final bit of thought: not every 'mon on a SS team has to be immune to SS. That's the fun bit, as long as you have T-tar or Hippowdon, it's technically a SS team.
--- Quote from: Mr._Rex on April 28, 2011, 10:36:21 PM ---garchomp with sand veil. Trust me. it is very hard to take down, give it a yach berry jolly nature 252 attack and speed, swords dance, EQuake, SE, and a filler move. I tend to use Fire fang.
--- End quote ---
I'd be the first to agree that Garchomp is OP and deserves a slot on any SS team, but in this scenario, without reworking how it is, that will just open up his weakness line-up even more. I've always been a strong core builder. (Usually consisting of a balanced Water, Fire, Grass defensive.)
SS teams tend to be really bulky and either good at throwing around huge hits or wearing down foes. Garchomp preforms the former well, but wouldn't add much to the team outside of some powerful hits. (Already easy accomplished by Excadrill, who frankly has an easier time with a Balloon equipped.)
--- End quote ---
Ah, i was hoping you would comment, you know your stuff.
I was planning on using a balloon on excadrill, dont worry about that. Ok so you would recommend a Dusknoir then? Interesting i had never thought of using him. What are some of the ways he can be used effectively on this team? Also no legendaries so Zapdos is out.
And i wasnt planning on changing around the first 4 unless it is really needed. I wanted to compensate for their weaknesses with the other two. What do you think about Reuniclus though? I was thinking he would be helpful to this team with a calm mind/recover set.
Raikt:
--- Quote from: Viper on April 29, 2011, 01:17:15 AM ---Ah, i was hoping you would comment, you know your stuff.
I was planning on using a balloon on excadrill, dont worry about that. Ok so you would recommend a Dusknoir then? Interesting i had never thought of using him. What are some of the ways he can be used effectively on this team? Also no legendaries so Zapdos is out.
And i wasnt planning on changing around the first 4 unless it is really needed. I wanted to compensate for their weaknesses with the other two. What do you think about Reuniclus though? I was thinking he would be helpful to this team with a calm mind/recover set.
--- End quote ---
Using Air Balloon is a good start. Personally, I wouldn't run an Excadrill without it. It just makes him so much more flexible on switch-ins and helps supporting match ups against fellow Excadrill's.
Dusknoir is always an option, but it mostly depends on your play style. I usually go for Bulky Offense, so Dusknoir more suites my play style. Especially with Will-o-Wisp or his Subpunch set. However, if pure defense is all you want (without attacking and whatnot, just heals and burns.) his pre-vo is a better choice, as with the Evolite Stone it ends up with incredible bulk.
Gengar is useful if you want a flexible 'mon as he can do so much. I honestly can't remember all his sets as there are so many variations of them.
Shanderaa is another (and personally, I think a very viable fit) option to cover up your fire weakness with Flash Fire (and get a boost) and hit extremely hard from the special side. Something you're a bit lacking at the moment. A sturdy and well played physical wall can shut down your entire team. (Skarmory would have very little issue with any of them and could just set up spikes, heal off, and Whirlwind them away.) So, if I had to choose a ghost type for you, then this would be it. I'm unsure if you are using SR, but if you do, he is also one hell of an anti-spinner if played right.
Renny isn't bad, but he also isn't good. As I mentioned from a type standpoint, Excadrill is going to be your main sweeper. As, frankly, any set not named Swords Dance really isn't worth using. So, with that in mind, he doesn't want to come out late and take any early damage. If you add in Renny, none of your team can take a Bug type hit. See where I'm going with this? Scizor would slaughter you to hell and back with U-Turn spam. You can't cover for everything, but Shanderaa would be a good start there too. It would threaten Scizors to stay hidden. In fact, I've seen Shanderaa sweep an entire team before with Shadow Tag, CM, and Sub after coming in on a Scizor's SuperPower.
Moving on, you currently have two 'mon weak to grass and one neutral. Two weak to fire, one neutral. And all of them are hit hard by ground. Shanderaa solves the fire issue. It also covers the fact that Ferrothorn is your only answer to fighting moves. They compliment each other well. If you play your resistances correctly with Swampert, Ferrothorn, and Shanderaa (Fire, Water, Grass core, man I love working that into teams.) Then, your best shot at last type would be either fighting or a lead if you haven't decided to use T-tar as your lead.
Personally, I would keep him in the lead spot to set up SR (optional) and set up SS (Mandatory, but it also blows the surprise factor. It's a dead give away to your strategy nearly off the bat.) So, leading with something else could be a fun surprise if played right. It would also free up T-tar to use quite a few of his other sets.
Viper:
--- Quote from: Raikt on April 29, 2011, 04:51:40 AM ---
--- Quote from: Viper on April 29, 2011, 01:17:15 AM ---Ah, i was hoping you would comment, you know your stuff.
I was planning on using a balloon on excadrill, dont worry about that. Ok so you would recommend a Dusknoir then? Interesting i had never thought of using him. What are some of the ways he can be used effectively on this team? Also no legendaries so Zapdos is out.
And i wasnt planning on changing around the first 4 unless it is really needed. I wanted to compensate for their weaknesses with the other two. What do you think about Reuniclus though? I was thinking he would be helpful to this team with a calm mind/recover set.
--- End quote ---
Using Air Balloon is a good start. Personally, I wouldn't run an Excadrill without it. It just makes him so much more flexible on switch-ins and helps supporting match ups against fellow Excadrill's.
Dusknoir is always an option, but it mostly depends on your play style. I usually go for Bulky Offense, so Dusknoir more suites my play style. Especially with Will-o-Wisp or his Subpunch set. However, if pure defense is all you want (without attacking and whatnot, just heals and burns.) his pre-vo is a better choice, as with the Evolite Stone it ends up with incredible bulk.
Gengar is useful if you want a flexible 'mon as he can do so much. I honestly can't remember all his sets as there are so many variations of them.
Shanderaa is another (and personally, I think a very viable fit) option to cover up your fire weakness with Flash Fire (and get a boost) and hit extremely hard from the special side. Something you're a bit lacking at the moment. A sturdy and well played physical wall can shut down your entire team. (Skarmory would have very little issue with any of them and could just set up spikes, heal off, and Whirlwind them away.) So, if I had to choose a ghost type for you, then this would be it. I'm unsure if you are using SR, but if you do, he is also one hell of an anti-spinner if played right.
Renny isn't bad, but he also isn't good. As I mentioned from a type standpoint, Excadrill is going to be your main sweeper. As, frankly, any set not named Swords Dance really isn't worth using. So, with that in mind, he doesn't want to come out late and take any early damage. If you add in Renny, none of your team can take a Bug type hit. See where I'm going with this? Scizor would slaughter you to hell and back with U-Turn spam. You can't cover for everything, but Shanderaa would be a good start there too. It would threaten Scizors to stay hidden. In fact, I've seen Shanderaa sweep an entire team before with Shadow Tag, CM, and Sub after coming in on a Scizor's SuperPower.
Moving on, you currently have two 'mon weak to grass and one neutral. Two weak to fire, one neutral. And all of them are hit hard by ground. Shanderaa solves the fire issue. It also covers the fact that Ferrothorn is your only answer to fighting moves. They compliment each other well. If you play your resistances correctly with Swampert, Ferrothorn, and Shanderaa (Fire, Water, Grass core, man I love working that into teams.) Then, your best shot at last type would be either fighting or a lead if you haven't decided to use T-tar as your lead.
Personally, I would keep him in the lead spot to set up SR (optional) and set up SS (Mandatory, but it also blows the surprise factor. It's a dead give away to your strategy nearly off the bat.) So, leading with something else could be a fun surprise if played right. It would also free up T-tar to use quite a few of his other sets.
--- End quote ---
Ah ya i like the idea of using Shanderaa, hes definitely something i need. And what would you recommend for his setup? Using flash fire would be helpful when i send out ferrothorn because i can just absorb his check, but Shadow Tag has alot of usefulness too.
Also i like the idea of holding Tyranitar back and going with a different lead. Fighting sounds good too. I used to go with a Machamp lead, that worked good for a while, maybe i could break him out again. Or i could go with Breloom as my lead, before Tyranitar i would use him as a lead, however that would open up another weakness to fire.
Raikt:
Shadow Tag is an awesome play, but would require reworking your team to suit it. So, I would suggest Flash Fire as it fills up your fire weakness and allows him to hit even harder if predicted correctly. (Remembering it also works on Will-o-Wisp as well, pretty crucial for your nearly all physical team, unless you decide to go mixed with T-tar or Swampert.)
Machamp as an anti-lead was a personal favorite of mine back before Azelf was popularized. After it, Heatran, and Metagross started seeing a lot of lead play, I began to lead with Specstran. Ah, good times... But I digress.
As you will see me state in any team thread though, picking a lead is not something to take lightly. Usually, and most often, what your lead accomplishes can determine the outcome of the entire battle if played correctly. It's hard to come back from a lead who manages to cripple at least two members of your team. So, while Machamp is a good start, I don't think it would be the best if you play on saving T-tar. And choosing a lead entirely depends on what you want to do.
Do you want an early game KO? Do you want to cripple their lead and force a switch to potentially cripple something else? Do you want to set out entry hazards? Or do you want a scouter to test movesets and generally annoy the piss out of them?
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