Pokémon Discussion > General Chat
[CLOSED] The Elemental Elites (continues in the new thread)
Mr. Fox:
Ok, let me put it another way. Staraptor tears my team to shreds. There are 5 pokemon that are faster and only 1, that is right 1 will be in the game. Now throw in a scarf and I can't touch it with out being Braved Birded to death. Terrakion being rock type and having 108 base speed just 8 points over Staraptor's 100 base speed is able to out run and kill it before it does to much damage to my team.
Now take a look at the one fight type pokemon that is faster then Staraptor, Infernape, and compare it to Terrakion.
Infernape:76/104/71/104/71/108
Terrakion:91/129/90/72/90/108
note the diffrence in the stat spread. The extra bulk allows Terrakion to switch in far more often making him far more viable to be an effective flying type counter. Now to be fair lets bring in Staraptor's stats.
Staraptor: 85/120/70/50/50/100
Yes it had pitiful defences, but it made OU for a reason. It has access to very powerful Brave Bird, Double Edge, and Close Combat, and this gen it got non other the Reckless for its Dream World Ability, making Brave Bird even more potent. With only 1 fight type pokemon being faster then it makes it the perfect fight counter. Sure let it Brave Bird a high Hp pokemon so it loses more health or just use priory. Lets see, Machamp lost Bullet punch, Conkeldurr lost Mach Punch. I see a trend, all the high attack low speed fight pokemon are losing access to their priory moves, taking away their ability to check Staraptor.
Lets take a look at Lucario with his Extreme Speed. Lucario has access to the most powerful Priory move in the franchise.but look at his stats.
Lucario: 70/110/70/115/70/90.
Sure after one Swords Dance he could easily take out Staraptor, the question is will he survive a Brave Bird to his face while he sets up? Lets see.
116.4% - 137%. I am no expert but that looks like a one hit KO to me. So Lucario isn't going to be getting any set up time against him. Ok that is out of the way, what about an unboosted Extreme Speed? Lets see: 45.5% - 53.8%. The Enemy Stataptor will have to be at least 50% damaged to take it out without fear of losing yet another pokemon.
Sure Lucaio took out Staraptor, but what about the numorious other Flying type pokemon that are faster then Infernape? Togekiss can come in and Parahax your Lucario to death, so trying for a swords dance and then trying to ESpeed is unreliable at best.
See what I am trying to say? Just having a stab rock type move to take out those pesky flying types is much more reliable then using slow bulky ones that don't get a chance to move. That is what I am trying to say. 154.3% - 181.6% That is how much damage Machamp, one of the bulkiest fight types around, takes from Brave Bird. with his damn low speed and loss of bullet punch, he doesn't stand a chance to come in and even try to take out the Staraptor. I hope I cleared that up for everyone.
Roloc:
--- Quote from: The Fox on December 10, 2011, 05:43:31 AM ---Ok, let me put it another way. ...... I hope I cleared that up for everyone.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Roloc on December 10, 2011, 04:38:31 AM ---We know what you were talking about.
You don't always need stab to OHKO your threats.
Find a way.
--- End quote ---
As I said before...we understand. :P
Mr. Fox:
ok fine the only other way i see it happening is to sacrifice some of my pokemon to bring its HP down low enough for a priorty attack to take it out, but then I am down how ever many pokemon I sacrificed. Come on, there are no fight types bulky enough to survive a single hit from it. Sure throw a Focus Sash on a Poliwrath and use Counter, extremely conditional. I am hopping they come up with a damn solution to the very real problem I have noticed in creating a mono fight team!
TheSolx:
Mewtwo Level100!!!
My, Silver is gonna rule the world... except Silver is my rival in Silver... I'm Gold... whatever
zylonnick:
--- Quote from: The Fox on December 10, 2011, 05:43:31 AM ---Ok, let me put it another way. Staraptor tears my team to shreds. There are 5 pokemon that are faster and only 1, that is right 1 will be in the game. Now throw in a scarf and I can't touch it with out being Braved Birded to death. Terrakion being rock type and having 108 base speed just 8 points over Staraptor's 100 base speed is able to out run and kill it before it does to much damage to my team.
Now take a look at the one fight type pokemon that is faster then Staraptor, Infernape, and compare it to Terrakion.
Infernape:76/104/71/104/71/108
Terrakion:91/129/90/72/90/108
note the diffrence in the stat spread. The extra bulk allows Terrakion to switch in far more often making him far more viable to be an effective flying type counter. Now to be fair lets bring in Staraptor's stats.
Staraptor: 85/120/70/50/50/100
Yes it had pitiful defences, but it made OU for a reason. It has access to very powerful Brave Bird, Double Edge, and Close Combat, and this gen it got non other the Reckless for its Dream World Ability, making Brave Bird even more potent. With only 1 fight type pokemon being faster then it makes it the perfect fight counter. Sure let it Brave Bird a high Hp pokemon so it loses more health or just use priory. Lets see, Machamp lost Bullet punch, Conkeldurr lost Mach Punch. I see a trend, all the high attack low speed fight pokemon are losing access to their priory moves, taking away their ability to check Staraptor.
Lets take a look at Lucario with his Extreme Speed. Lucario has access to the most powerful Priory move in the franchise.but look at his stats.
Lucario: 70/110/70/115/70/90.
Sure after one Swords Dance he could easily take out Staraptor, the question is will he survive a Brave Bird to his face while he sets up? Lets see.
116.4% - 137%. I am no expert but that looks like a one hit KO to me. So Lucario isn't going to be getting any set up time against him. Ok that is out of the way, what about an unboosted Extreme Speed? Lets see: 45.5% - 53.8%. The Enemy Stataptor will have to be at least 50% damaged to take it out without fear of losing yet another pokemon.
Sure Lucaio took out Staraptor, but what about the numorious other Flying type pokemon that are faster then Infernape? Togekiss can come in and Parahax your Lucario to death, so trying for a swords dance and then trying to ESpeed is unreliable at best.
See what I am trying to say? Just having a stab rock type move to take out those pesky flying types is much more reliable then using slow bulky ones that don't get a chance to move. That is what I am trying to say. 154.3% - 181.6% That is how much damage Machamp, one of the bulkiest fight types around, takes from Brave Bird. with his damn low speed and loss of bullet punch, he doesn't stand a chance to come in and even try to take out the Staraptor. I hope I cleared that up for everyone.
--- End quote ---
Let's see, the non-scarfed version goes dOwn by my Infernape's Stone Edge or my Scarf Heracross's Stone edge. For the Scarfed version I use my sashed Infernape, survive the hit and kill him. Another way is let it kill 1-2 bulky pokemon and then use priority moves. Another thing that could work is using a Hitmonlee with Unburden, Normal Gem and Fake out to outspeed it and then kill it. If you switch a Speed Boost Blaziken in before he switches in (team preview) and then use protect, you'll outspeed and KO it. That same Blaziken with a Focus Sash and Protect can Protect on turn 1, attack or set up on turn 2, yo'n outspeed everything on turn 3. Now you've even set up against it... There are ways, you just need to think outside the box with a monotype team.
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