Pokémon Discussion > General Chat
[GUILD] Elemental Elites
Roloc:
Really? What kind of clefable are you running? I have never lost my mega scizor to a clefable. I always 1-2 HKO it with bullet punch. Depending on if I have a SD under my belt. OHKO if I do, 2HKO if I don't. I'm interested in seeing what clefable you have that will stop mega scizor from killing it on the second turn. Cause bulky mega scizor can take a non-stab unboosted flamethrower.
Noah_Road:
With the special moves being nerfed, Flamethrower isn't worth it unless you have STAB. I'm running 252 Def/128 HP/128 Sp.Atk Bold Clefable to guarantee surviving BP from both Scizors, Lucario, and even Iron Head from Mega Mawile 63% of the time. Fire Blast is what OHKO's Scizor. If Mega Scizor gets a SD, then Clefable can't take a BP but I'm usually on the field before Scizor is. Running Unaware instead of Magic Guard would ignore Swords Dance but leave me vulnerable to Toxic....so I'm not sure which I want to run XD
Roloc:
Oh your talking about fire blast. Is it worth it with that miss chance? 1 miss is all it takes to cause the loss of a game. Which is why I always run accuracy over power.
I'd rather do some damage and lose my poke rather then do no damage and lose my poke.
Speaking of accuracy, I think I need to stop using air slash. Seriously, it misses more then stone edge and it's only a 5% chance to miss. xD
I actually lost a game the other day cause I missed with air slash 3 times back to back. What are the odds of that happening. lql
NINJASKEDIT:
Ran some damage calcs, clefable won't OHKO bulky mega scizor unless it's modest + life orb with 252 spatk. And who doesnt run bulky mega scizor? IT's so much easier to set up and sweep with it.
I'm okay with this. An offensive clefable is MUCH easier to handle then a bulky one.
NinjaskEdit:
Here are the results of the damage calc:
Bulky scizor
EVS:
108 Atk
252 HP
150 SpDef
Clefable:
EVs:
252 Def
128 HP
128 SpAtk
128 SpA Clefable Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 150 SpD Scizor: 300-356 (87.2 - 103.48%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
108+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 128 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (53.16 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is using 40 base power bullet punch and 110 base power fire blast.
Bulky Mega Scizor wins 75% of the time.
Haven't done this much number crunching in pokemon since gen 2. It brings back some good memories. Sure is easier to do the number crunching now though. ._.
Fun fun.
Noah_Road:
Fire Blast accuracy sucks, but as we all know, its better to be able to counter your weaknesses than to check them. Mega Scizor laughs at Flamethrower from non Modest Clefable and I'd rather take the 75% chance to hit and OHKO than take 2 Bullet Punches and die.
Also, your calcs are off.
Normal Scizor:
124 SpA Bold Clefable Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 412-488 (120.11 - 142.27%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mega Scizor:
124 SpA Bold Clefable Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD (custom): 344-408 (100.29 - 118.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO
These are standard sets with HP investment.
Scizor with Sp.Def investment:
124 SpA Bold Clefable Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Scizor: 316-376 (112.45 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mega Scizor with Sp.Def investment:
124 SpA Bold Clefable Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 272-324 (96.79 - 115.3%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO
So even with Sp.Def investment, I still have a good chance to OHKO Mega Scizor without having to compromise my bulk to take a Bullet Punch (Clefable CAN'T take a Bullet Punch with any less bulk). You could invest in both HP and Sp.Def but you would have to give up Atk EVs which would potentially let Cleable avoid a 2HKO Bullet Punch. I'd actually really like to test that.
So far, I'm not getting too unlucky with the Fire Blast missing but it is a huge risk. Ideally, if Scizor is already on the field, I'd like to just go into either Klefki or Mawile and either Foul Play or Fire Fang Scizor but Bullet Punch is still really hurts Klefki even though its nuetral.
Roloc:
No, my calcs are spot on. You miss read I'm afraid. I use the same bulky scizor from smogon. A lot of people run this build to survive non boosted fire attacks.
--- Quote from: Roloc on November 05, 2013, 08:38:26 PM ---NinjaskEdit:
Here are the results of the damage calc:
Bulky scizor
EVS:
108 Atk
252 HP
150 SpDef
Clefable:
EVs:
252 Def
128 HP
128 SpAtk
128 SpA Clefable Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 150 SpD Scizor: 300-356 (87.2 - 103.48%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
108+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 128 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (53.16 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is using 40 base power bullet punch and 110 base power fire blast.
Bulky Mega Scizor wins 75% of the time.
Haven't done this much number crunching in pokemon since gen 2. It brings back some good memories. Sure is easier to do the number crunching now though. ._.
Fun fun.
--- End quote ---
Clefable only have a 25% chance to OHKO bulky mega scizor.
Don't forget to take fire blast down to 110 power.
--- Quote from: Noah_Road on November 06, 2013, 09:58:49 PM ---Fire Blast accuracy sucks, but as we all know, its better to be able to counter your weaknesses than to check them.
--- End quote ---
As I said in the previous post, I see it the other way around. I'd rather be sure to do SOME damage rather than having a good chance at doing NO damage.
But to each his own. Ya know? :D
Also just a random update to everyone. Have yall checked out mega genger? If you'd like some free wins on your x/y game. Grab a Timid Genger with shadowball/sludgewave/anything you want/D-Bond and wreck faces. That set is guaranteed a minimum of 2 kills every game. It's a monster.
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