Pokemon Universe MMORPG

Pokémon Universe => Ideas & Suggestions => Topic started by: Alais on April 12, 2010, 04:09:09 AM

Title: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Alais on April 12, 2010, 04:09:09 AM

New Rules for Battles

None of this is official, it's just a fun idea. Enjoy!

Pokemon battles in the games are quite different from those in the anime. The most notable difference is the lack of a "Dodge" command; a "Wait" command, telling a pokemon to wait and see what the opponent will do; and "Counterattack", the ability for attacks to be used against other attacks. You often hear a trainer telling his pokemon to "Dodge and use Thundershock", and you often see one beam type attack being fired at another and meeting each other, or a razor wind blowing away smog or razor leaves, with one of the attacks beating the other, and damaging one or both of the pokemon accordingly.

This idea would add different rulesets for battles, including:

Classic Rules

• Rules are the same as the official games.
• Default "Shift" battle type. i.e. Pokemon may be switched at any time.
• "Classic Rules: No Shifting" subtype for the "Set" battle option in the original games. i.e. Pokemon only switch after fainting.

Best of # (e.g. Best of 3.)

• Each trainer sends out a Pokemon, but when one faints, both are recalled and two new Pokemon fight for "Round 2".
• Trainer Battles only.

Advanced Rules

• This includes the four new Actions below: Dodge, Dodge and Attack, Counterattack, and Wait.
• Designed to allow the player to have a battle much more similar to the anime battles.
• "Advanced Rules: No Waiting" for disallowing Waiting and Counterattacks.

Advanced Rules

tl;dr: Skip to the Example Battle below.

Dodge:

• 50-75% success depending on difference in speed: success = (0.6+0.5(a.speed-f.speed)/a.speed), capped 50-75%

Dodge and attack:

• Dodge has 30-55% success, offensive attacks only - status effects 30% less accurate, damage at 50%
• Using a move with "Dodge" as its Form during a "Dodge and attack" means the Dodge doesn't have a success penalty (stays 50-75%)

Counterattack:

• Nondamaging Counterattack drops effects and randomly lowers opponent's damage to 0-75%, status effects 50% less accurate
• Damaging Counterattack causes both attacks to do 0-100% damage (total adding to 100%), status effects 50% less accurate
• Type advantage adds 25% to attacker's damage and removes 25% from foe's damage
• Level difference adds per level 5% to higher Pokemon's damage and removes 5% from lower Pokemon's damage (max 25%)
• Each attack may have one or two "Forms" which are the sort of attack it is (Punch, Beam, Wind etc.)
• A move can Counterattack a foe's attack with favourable Form or Type matchup (for moves allowed to Type Counterattack)

Here is an Excel table of the various Forms used:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BRBCSMHP

Wait:

• You attempt to wait for your opponent to move first "[Pokemon] waits for its moment..."
• If both Pokemon wait on one turn, the next turn neither are allowed to choose Wait. "[Pokemon] and [Foe] are staring it out!"

• Dodge and Counterattack are only available after the opponent chooses to to use a regular attack.
• When the opponent chooses a regular attack, chat reads as "[Foe] readies [Attack]!" / "What will [Pokemon] do?"
• The Pokemon readying its attack will always move first, but the damage from an attack + counterattack is applied to both pokemon at once.
• Low level wild Pokemon don't know how to Counterattack and don't Wait because they don't know why waiting can be an advantage.
• Edit: Increased priority moves like Quick Attack will hit the foe and end the turn if it tries waiting, as they are fast.

Ranges could be continuous or discrete.
Discrete examples:   

• Non-damaging counterattack reduces damage to 0%, 25%, 50% or 75%.
• Damaging counterattack reduces damage and status accuracy by (foe, attacker) 0%,100% ; 25%,75% ; 50%,50% ; 75%,25% ; 100%,0%.

Example Battle: Advanced Rules

Pikachu Vs. Charmander, Pikachu is faster. Note that this battle has a lot of dodging, to show different cases.

[Turn 1]
[What will Pikachu do?] >Wait
Pikachu waits for its moment...
Charmander readies Ember...
[What will Pikachu do?] >Dodge and use Thundershock.
Charmander uses Ember!
Pikachu fails to dodge and takes 20 points of damage.	Pikachu takes normal damage from Ember.
Pikachu uses Thundershock!
Charmander takes 10 points of damage.	Charmander takes 50% damage from Thundershock, chance of paralyze was halved (5%).
[Turn 2]
[What will Pikachu do?] >Wait
Pikachu waits for its moment...
Charmander readies Flamethrower...
[What will Pikachu do?] >Counterattack with Thunderbolt.	Pikachu is able to Counterattack without a type advantage because both attacks have Beam Form and a Beam can counter another Beam.
Charmander uses Flamethrower!
Pikachu Counterattacks with Thunderbolt!
Pikachu takes 10 points of damage.	Counterattack worked out at Pikachu receiving 25% damage from Flamethrower and Charmander receiving 75% damage from Thunderbolt. Paralyze and burn acc. was halved.
Charmander takes 30 points of damage.
[Turn 3]
[What will Pikachu do?] >Wait
Pikachu and Foe's Charmander are staring it out!	Both Pokemon chose to Wait. Next turn, Wait is disabled.
[Turn 4]
[What will Pikachu do?] >Thunderbolt
Pikachu readies Thunderbolt...
Pikachu uses Thunderbolt but Charmander dodges with Dig!	The slower Pokemon can not Counterattack without using Wait to see what the opponent is going to do. But it can Dodge or Dodge and Attack.
[Turn 5]
[What will Pikachu do?] >Wait	Pikachu Waits for Charmander to appear and use Dig.
Charmander readies Dig!
[What will Pikachu do?] >Dodge with Quick Attack.	Quick Attack has "Dodge" as its Form, so Dodge has the same success as without an attack (50-75% instead of 30-55%). Earlier, Dig also has Dodge as its form. Dodge Form attacks appear as "Dodges with [Attack]", not "Dodges and uses [Attack].
Charmander uses Dig!
Pikachu dodges with Quick Attack!
Charmander takes 4 points of damage.	Quick Attack's damage is still cut in half when used with Dodge.
[Turn 6]
[What will Pikachu do?] >Dodge	Pikachu will try to dodge whatever move Charmander uses.
Charmander uses Flamethrower!
Pikachu fails to dodge and takes 40 points of damage.
[Turn 7]
[What will Pikachu do?] >Wait
Charmander gets ready to dodge, but Pikachu isn't moving!	Charmander used Dodge but Pikachu used Wait. Wait and Dodge are disabled next turn.
[Turn 8]
[What will Pikachu do?] >Quick Attack
Charmander waits for a moment but Pikachu strikes fast with Quick Attack!	Charmander tried to wait but was attacked with an increased priority (fast) move. The turn ends. This is a means of countering people who always wait to counter your moves.
Charmander takes 8 points of damage.
[Turn 9]
[What will Pikachu do?] >Thunderbolt
Pikachu uses Thunderbolt!	Charmander was not able to Dodge or Wait to Counterattack.
It's a critical hit! Charmander takes 80 points of damage.
Charmander is unable to battle!	A trainer's Pokemon "is unable to battle" at 0hp, a wild pokemon "faints".
Pikachu gains 451 XP.

[/list][/list]

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Duke on April 12, 2010, 05:04:52 AM

Looks complicated, which can be a good or a bad thing.  I personally think it's a good thing, gives someone more options when facing a bad type match-up or a normal type matchup like in the example battle

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Zocan on April 12, 2010, 05:09:49 AM

(http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/thumb/a/a6/Contest_judges.png/220px-Contest_judges.png)    REMARKABLE!





looks nice clean and simple.
I love how this fighting style would make more sense.
But still the beat thing would be an action based battle (in my opinion)
you know, moving around to dodge and attacking at the same time to counter.
and this way teamwork could be great.

but back to topic, i love the wait / counter ideal ^.^

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: 4g0ny on April 12, 2010, 05:19:36 AM

looks like a great system it's gonna be interesting to see how fluidly it works in game. taking a look at the xls right now

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: kiel223 on April 12, 2010, 08:40:00 AM

As Zocan said... Remarkable!!

Really well thought out, and seems nicely balanced. Definitely a system I'd love to play with. You've definitely achieved what you set out to do-- The example you used feels much more like a battle from the anime series, which is definitely a feel that the handheld games don't have.

Having said that, I think this would fit more into PU as an alternative battle system and not as the main one. Just seems like the feel of PU is trying to keep true to the feel of the original gameboy games that we all fell in love with, and a similar battle system would be more appropriate. But I would absolutely LOVE to see this idea picked up and implemented in some way. Possibly a frequent special event or somesuch?
Edit: By special event, I was thinking along the lines of a tournament...

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: SnowWolfAlpha on April 12, 2010, 11:51:53 AM

Well at least it would prevent all those silly one attack deaths you have in the official games.

Looks good on paper but will it work in game?

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: ghostman50 on April 12, 2010, 01:33:41 PM

Just as everyone else said, it all looks great. Well thought out. Something I wouldnt have thought of.  :-X And If it can be implemented, im all for it.

My only question would be related to speed, resistances/weaknesses, and etc. Since IVs will be implemented and EVs will be replaced with the proposed system, knowing who actually has the advantage (speed, type, etc) would be the only question I have.

In the handhelds, one could probably just look at the poke' to tell advantages/weakness and such (or just use the internet) but with the proposed "EV replacement" customization, it'll be nearly impossible to know the build of your opponent's poke's and who really has the advantages until half-way through the battle (or possibly later), especially in this proposed battle format, imo. By that time, it could be too late, which could be a good thing too.


This does rid the game of those much desired OHKOs  :'( , but the originality and thought going into the game would never be questioned. If this can be done, im all for it.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Alais on April 12, 2010, 02:25:15 PM

I think with the ability trees there might be icons showing what the opponent has spent his points on. Then again maybe not.

Added the ability to counter waiting with increased priority (fast) moves like Quick Attack. I have the feeling that without some kind of risk, slow pokemon would exploit the wait system by waiting every single time. This may still be a problem, as not all pokemon will have such a move. Perhaps there should be a penalty for asking a pokemon to wait too often. Something like directly barring the use of Wait twice in a row, or adding the chance that the pokemon will be "loafing around" (like if it was too high a level) if you wait too often, or some other countering mechanic like the one I already suggested... e.g. certain moves do more damage to a pokemon that is waiting.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Viper on April 22, 2010, 05:17:55 AM

Wow this might be the greatest battle idea i have ever seen. It would take pokemon battles to a whole new level with all the choices. People would actually have to strategize past picking a move thats super effective. I had actually thought of something like this before and wondered if they would put something like this in the future DS games. I full agree with this suggestion.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Seveer on May 22, 2010, 02:14:17 AM

New battle option. Use gun. (alows you to shot your oponet to death)

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: huyitsrichard on May 22, 2010, 06:37:15 AM

i really like this battle system.
i really hope they can make it work.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Seveer on May 25, 2010, 02:00:07 AM

Wow, I didnt say anything last time about this, just some random crap. So im going to say HORAY a new fighting system, I hope it makes it in the game.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Silver on August 12, 2010, 05:55:41 PM

Quote from: Alais on April 12, 2010, 02:25:15 PM

-snip-

True, I was thinking about that while I was reading it, "Why shouldn't I just wait all the time?" The increased priority moves help, and I like Your idea of not being able to wait twice in a row, but maybe if you hit a waiting pokemon, you have increased accuracy and damage? I mean, if the opponents pokemon is just standing there, my pokemon could probably aim fissure pretty accurately, or If i peg you square in the face with a bullet punch because you didn't even try to dodge it, shouldn't it hurt a little more?

Anyways, this looks like a good idea, I don't know if it would actually turn out well though. It'll take some getting used to to say the least.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: LeoReborn on August 12, 2010, 06:58:27 PM

Alais = Pure Genius....'Nuff Said

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Viper on August 12, 2010, 09:31:42 PM

I still think this idea is genius and i want more attention to it :) I want it in the game

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Sora on August 13, 2010, 07:03:59 PM

This would expand the battles to the whole new level!
I love it! Hopefully we'll see it in games

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Zyrow on August 17, 2010, 05:11:46 AM

This looks interesting. What's the difference between counterattacking and dodging+attacking? Also, I think waiting should decrease its evasiveness and increase the attacker's critical hit ratio.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Viper on September 27, 2010, 11:27:21 PM

Bak up for best idea ive seen on this forum yet

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: LeoReborn on September 27, 2010, 11:31:28 PM

Quote from: Zyrow on August 17, 2010, 05:11:46 AM

This looks interesting. What's the difference between counterattacking and dodging+attacking? Also, I think waiting should decrease its evasiveness and increase the attacker's critical hit ratio.

Dodge/Attacking avoids the blow entirely, While Counterattacking turns the blow against the opponent.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: zylonnick on October 07, 2010, 01:46:04 PM

great idea, and combined it with silver's idea (the quote beneath) you have it even more balanced. :D

Quote from: Silver on August 12, 2010, 05:55:41 PM

True, I was thinking about that while I was reading it, "Why shouldn't I just wait all the time?" The increased priority moves help, and I like Your idea of not being able to wait twice in a row, but maybe if you hit a waiting pokemon, you have increased accuracy and damage? I mean, if the opponents pokemon is just standing there, my pokemon could probably aim fissure pretty accurately, or If i peg you square in the face with a bullet punch because you didn't even try to dodge it, shouldn't it hurt a little more?

Anyways, this looks like a good idea, I don't know if it would actually turn out well though. It'll take some getting used to to say the least.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Frenchfry on October 07, 2010, 10:46:01 PM

>.>
l.l
<.<

*Into radio* Commander, I've found the necromancer.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: DarK_SouL on October 08, 2010, 12:17:56 AM

i liek this idea. Remind me of the B/W's new attack system, for some reason.
Either way, I'd like to hear some more ideas, keep posting.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Monzta on October 09, 2010, 01:22:26 PM

Awesome idea, but then again, we need more pixel artissstss :@

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Level5Pidgey on October 15, 2010, 11:07:20 AM

Pretty cool idea, would be fun as an additional battle style.
Keep the current battles as default, of course, but allow this one as a battle setting if people desire it - and have it so when they battle others, it's an option.

Of course, assuming it were to be programmed in.

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: stephenkill2 on October 15, 2010, 12:53:34 PM

Quote from: Level5Pidgey on October 15, 2010, 11:07:20 AM

Pretty cool idea, would be fun as an additional battle style.
Keep the current battles as default, of course, but allow this one as a battle setting if people desire it - and have it so when they battle others, it's an option.

Of course, assuming it were to be programmed in.

Pidgey, this post is from April lol   ::)

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: Viper on October 15, 2010, 10:10:18 PM

Quote from: stephenkill2 on October 15, 2010, 12:53:34 PM

Quote from: Level5Pidgey on October 15, 2010, 11:07:20 AM

Pretty cool idea, would be fun as an additional battle style.
Keep the current battles as default, of course, but allow this one as a battle setting if people desire it - and have it so when they battle others, it's an option.

Of course, assuming it were to be programmed in.

Pidgey, this post is from April lol   ::)

But its still awesome. I desire it

Title: Re: Advanced Battle Options
Post by: DrPinkies on October 18, 2010, 12:53:33 AM

I loe the idea of more strategy in battles, but perhaps yu could have battle type in different servers?  (I.E. You could name them then in parenthesis put battle type)

Ex.-
Server 1 (Classic)
Server 2 (Mod.)
Server 3 (No Swap) ...etc