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Poll

What do you think about my idea for expanding the conflict between trainers and grunts?

The present formula of quests is fine as it is.
It is overly ambitious, at least for the time being. (could be inroduced later in an update).
Agree on some levels, disagree on others.
Doesn't fit with the vision of Pokemon Universe
A good idea all-round.

Author Topic: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!  (Read 3146 times)

Offline Crazy Prophet

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Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« on: May 16, 2011, 02:34:08 am »
Just joined by the way, this project looks awesome :)

Assuming there WILL be an evil business empire or criminal gang (which is a staple of all major pokemon games) trying to do dastardly things like stealing electric mice from a 10 year-old kid, perhaps there could be a series of quests in the future devoted entirely to infiltating their base(s) and shutting down their operations. The MMO format might change things around, but the climax of pretty much every game involved kicking the criminal leader's arse, with each scheme getting bigger and nastier with each gen. On the other hand, the evil corporation could take more of a background role in the overall plot, understandable, as implementing a story like this would be quite challlenging.

My master-draw is that instead of attempting to translate the single-player affair into a multiplayer one, the players on an entire server could ALL contribute to the downfall of Team (whatever). Basically instead of the story dependant on each indivdual player to advance, TVs could update regularly server-wide on the progress of the free-people's fight against this almost Shinra-like corp. Its maybe a little far-fetched, but I thought it was an interesting thought for future updates.

EDIT: So basically, there could be a rewards system for contributing in fighting goons, and with each victory, may it be against a petty grunt or some pokemon mecha destroyed (all I could think of) we go one step closer to liberty of all pokemon...and then another evil group comes in and trashes the party.

I understand that this isn't in any sense detailed, but I'd like some feedback one what meagre thoughts I've put down if I'm going to pursue this any further;
-is it realisitc?
-does it fit with the culture of the game?
-does it interest anyone? Does it give rise to that sacred word...meh?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2011, 03:36:30 am by Crazy Prophet »
Everyone has the right to be stupid once and a while, but mate, you're abusing it.

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

Offline Yume Tsuki

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 07:24:48 am »
I like the idea, but I just don't know about the progress stuff yet. If the team gets beaten after a long quest where everyone in the entire world that plays PU there might be some newcomers whom feel left out because they also wanted to do de quest.

Claiming that someone else's marriage is against your religion is like being angry at someone for eating a doughnut because you're on a diet.

Offline Crazy Prophet

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 11:27:36 am »
I like the idea, but I just don't know about the progress stuff yet. If the team gets beaten after a long quest where everyone in the entire world that plays PU there might be some newcomers whom feel left out because they also wanted to do de quest.

Very true, that. As generic as it may sound, a flashback system could be utilised for  quests so that material can be re-used. There doesn't necessarily need to be any meaningful reward for it, just for those wanting to play the quest. Such a feature could be unlocked at a certain stage in the game (either on a player-by player basis or once the time in which one can partake in the quest normally has expired).
Everyone has the right to be stupid once and a while, but mate, you're abusing it.

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

Offline Declan_23

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 11:31:42 am »
Actually, there will be more than one evil team (think at least 4), and yes, there will be options to try and bring them down. As nice as it would be for you to work in a group, I don't find it very practical. For instance, would it be server wide? In which case what would happen once it was eventually beaten? Would new trainers have nothing to do? For these reasons, co-operating with more than one person seems to be a little unworkable.

Offline Crazy Prophet

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 04:32:11 pm »
Actually, there will be more than one evil team (think at least 4), and yes, there will be options to try and bring them down. As nice as it would be for you to work in a group, I don't find it very practical. For instance, would it be server wide? In which case what would happen once it was eventually beaten? Would new trainers have nothing to do? For these reasons, co-operating with more than one person seems to be a little unworkable.

Point taken, but I'm not talking necessarily about groups of people physically working together, but rather the collective efforts of indivduals questing solo (a little difficult to explain). So yes, there would be a server-wide effect from each person's exploits.

An example would be: "Player defeats X Grunt. 3 points were added to the server's total of 4567 pwnage points against Team X"

Or something of greater scale: "Player has found Team Y's plans for global domination! 80 points were added to the server's total of 2367 pwnage points against Team Y"

Points earned can additionally be used by those who help attain them to purchase special items and/or moves, increasing the incentive for players to do so. This is vitally important, as otherwise players would ask "What's in it for me?"

Any set figure of points required to oust a crim syndicate can be applied, and new ones can be creatively introduced by questers/story writers when others fall. Supporting up to four teams at once would be brilliant, but obviously care should be made in ensuring they are different enough so that their existance is meaningful. Overly ambitious? Perhaps. But such a system would add a great deal more depth to gameplay.

Everyone has the right to be stupid once and a while, but mate, you're abusing it.

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

Offline Jerry

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 05:03:55 pm »
Hm... what about some sort of 'general game' where each week/month whatever, there's an area which opens up, and you start afresh with that?

I mean, like:
1. Opening of game: Guilds/Players/whatever enter it, and try to go as far as possible.
2. As soon as a player/guild to pull down the Team, the game ends and rewards are distributed accordingly.

Or maybe separate player and guild apart.

3. The area is closed for some time (until the next game is ready or something).
4. Once the time comes, the area opens up again for another new fresh game,


That way, it doesn't impact much, if at all on the general story and there is no 'all teams are crushed now, there's nothing left to do' point.
No one can go back and change a bad beginning; but anyone can start now and create a successful ending.
If a problem can be solved, no need to worry about it. If it cannot be solved what is the use of worrying?

Currently playing Pokemon XY/ORAS/Shuffle and Clash of Clans and testing out PokemonRevolutionOnline and Dragonmon Hunter....
Also, forum notification emails are not getting in my inbox... again...

Offline Crazy Prophet

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 02:40:12 am »
Hm... what about some sort of 'general game' where each week/month whatever, there's an area which opens up, and you start afresh with that?

I mean, like:
1. Opening of game: Guilds/Players/whatever enter it, and try to go as far as possible.
2. As soon as a player/guild to pull down the Team, the game ends and rewards are distributed accordingly.

Or maybe separate player and guild apart.

3. The area is closed for some time (until the next game is ready or something).
4. Once the time comes, the area opens up again for another new fresh game,


That way, it doesn't impact much, if at all on the general story and there is no 'all teams are crushed now, there's nothing left to do' point.

Yes, this is certainly a good fall-back. Anyone who has played lotro here will know that the pvmp feature has no impact on the main gameplay, and allows players to play as the bad guys without damaging the lore, and could work here (I'm not comparing lotr and pokemon on any other basis, both VERY different source material). There could be a map exclusively for such a feature (and yeah, this is becoming less 'quest', more 'feature') that could allow for players to play (temporarily) in the role of a rocket grunt or higher ranking rocket member against other players as trainers. The aim could be to make tactical victories over the opposing trainers/grunts, by battling and raiding their base, etc. I saw suggestions concerning playing as a grunt in another thread, and it seemed largely against it, as it would involve 'stealing' from trainers; well, either they just can't, or free trainers are temporarily provided with a random or preset team of pokemon that CAN be stolen. The grunts, on the other hand, have awful pokemon to start, so they must resort to stealing other pokemon to have any chance in battle.
Everyone has the right to be stupid once and a while, but mate, you're abusing it.

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

Offline shadowbt

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 03:29:19 am »
Well even if this idea was agread on, it wouldn't happen any time soon.The team probably has there hands full already and this might be something to think about after the beta is released.
All things come in good time.

Offline Declan_23

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 12:24:21 pm »
I'm thinking that this is developing more into a 'clan war' style minigame, which I think is an excellent idea (Mainly as it means I don't need to write hundreds of quests.) And I know that you said 4 teams is ambitious, but I'm sure it's achievable :P

Offline Safur

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 04:50:22 pm »
What if you could also join 1 of the evil teams in the beginning and try to be a good grunt.

You can still try to beat all gyms and the elite four and the boss give you objectives like take out 2 weaker players and you will get money or this stolen pokemon. Then it would be fun for either site. You could both do quests, and the good guys have to battle the bad guys. It would be like this:

Trainer John54 battles Grunt Safur
Let's just have fun on the forum, until the game is released!

Offline Yume Tsuki

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2011, 06:50:52 pm »
What if you could also join 1 of the evil teams in the beginning and try to be a good grunt.

You can still try to beat all gyms and the elite four and the boss give you objectives like take out 2 weaker players and you will get money or this stolen pokemon. Then it would be fun for either site. You could both do quests, and the good guys have to battle the bad guys. It would be like this:

Trainer John54 battles Grunt Safur

I see some awesomeness in this, or that is because I'm listening an badass music next to it. (N final battle Remix)

Claiming that someone else's marriage is against your religion is like being angry at someone for eating a doughnut because you're on a diet.

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2011, 06:55:22 pm »
What if you could also join 1 of the evil teams in the beginning and try to be a good grunt.

You can still try to beat all gyms and the elite four and the boss give you objectives like take out 2 weaker players and you will get money or this stolen pokemon. Then it would be fun for either site. You could both do quests, and the good guys have to battle the bad guys. It would be like this:

Trainer John54 battles Grunt Safur

Sounds like fun ;)

Offline Crazy Prophet

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2011, 04:32:50 am »
-Example of a Team Rocket Grunt quest-

-Objective 1-
Storm the pokemon lab on the opposite side of the map.
-Objective 2-
Find and steal the pokemon eggs being tested in the lab.
-Objective 3-
Return to the Rocket Executive with the eggs.
-Optional objective-
Defeat the lab scientists (low levelled pokemon)

-Reward(s)-
-$2000 pokedollars
-20 ranking points* + 10 ranking points if optional objective is completed.

*I just came up with a system that would suit a clanwars-style mini-game: The trainers and crims can advance in ranking by accumulating 'ranking points' awarded from doing quests. This means that while everyone starts out as a 'rookie' trainer or 'grunt', new rankings, all the way up to 'champion' (in want of a better name) and 'executive'. Quests should be mostly repeatable, as making hundreds of quests purely for this mode would restrict expansion in other areas of the game. Of course, there should be a time period that a player must wait before attempting the same quest again, like 3 hours or something, otherwise it would be a little silly. New quests should be unlocked with each new ranking, getting progressively more difficult and increasing their sheer scale. (might be a petty theft in the 'grunt' quests, but evolves into bomb-plots and seizing control of public buildings (like a radio broadcasting tower ;D ) A half-dozen or so quests would be good for each ranking, which I think would be around 5 or 6 in number for each faction...

What if you could also join 1 of the evil teams in the beginning and try to be a good grunt.

You can still try to beat all gyms and the elite four and the boss give you objectives like take out 2 weaker players and you will get money or this stolen pokemon. Then it would be fun for either site. You could both do quests, and the good guys have to battle the bad guys. It would be like this:

Trainer John54 battles Grunt Safur

I agree, this would be awesome, but it would mean completely different quests throughout the game (No little girl is going to give the same quest she gives to a trainer to a weird middle-aged man in a black jumpsuit). What I'm proposing now is that it's all internalised in one map (which may be expanded/added to later). Doing all this would take a lot of work, though I'm sure mappers would have some fun making the territories and bases.

AH...and while I did talk about factional bases a bit...I should elaborate a little...there would be safe-zones inside the bases, and opposing teams won't be able to enter. These should be kept as small as possible-they are just spawn points for where a trainer goes if beaten in battle. The rest of the bases are entirely free to explore by anyone, with one small tweak- invading players themselves cannot start a battle with members of the defending faction, but the defenders can start battles with the invaders. I thought this would be a good idea, but I can see how it won't work well in certain cases. The defenders should have some sort of advantage over invaders in their base; I mean its quite logical. Also, respawn points should be a decent distance away from major points of conflict, so they cannot simply rejoin battle too quickly. Perhaps a small temporary penalty could be incurred on defeated players? Like max HP or stats of entire team to 70% for 5-10 mins?

Wow...long post...but I hope that this would clear up most questions on the basic principles. Any feedback/questions are welcome.
Everyone has the right to be stupid once and a while, but mate, you're abusing it.

"In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."

Offline Safur

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2011, 05:51:47 pm »
-Example of a Team Rocket Grunt quest-

-Objective 1-
Storm the pokemon lab on the opposite side of the map.
-Objective 2-
Find and steal the pokemon eggs being tested in the lab.
-Objective 3-
Return to the Rocket Executive with the eggs.
-Optional objective-
Defeat the lab scientists (low levelled pokemon)

-Reward(s)-
-$2000 pokedollars
-20 ranking points* + 10 ranking points if optional objective is completed.

*I just came up with a system that would suit a clanwars-style mini-game: The trainers and crims can advance in ranking by accumulating 'ranking points' awarded from doing quests. This means that while everyone starts out as a 'rookie' trainer or 'grunt', new rankings, all the way up to 'champion' (in want of a better name) and 'executive'. Quests should be mostly repeatable, as making hundreds of quests purely for this mode would restrict expansion in other areas of the game. Of course, there should be a time period that a player must wait before attempting the same quest again, like 3 hours or something, otherwise it would be a little silly. New quests should be unlocked with each new ranking, getting progressively more difficult and increasing their sheer scale. (might be a petty theft in the 'grunt' quests, but evolves into bomb-plots and seizing control of public buildings (like a radio broadcasting tower ;D ) A half-dozen or so quests would be good for each ranking, which I think would be around 5 or 6 in number for each faction...

What if you could also join 1 of the evil teams in the beginning and try to be a good grunt.

You can still try to beat all gyms and the elite four and the boss give you objectives like take out 2 weaker players and you will get money or this stolen pokemon. Then it would be fun for either site. You could both do quests, and the good guys have to battle the bad guys. It would be like this:

Trainer John54 battles Grunt Safur

I agree, this would be awesome, but it would mean completely different quests throughout the game (No little girl is going to give the same quest she gives to a trainer to a weird middle-aged man in a black jumpsuit). What I'm proposing now is that it's all internalised in one map (which may be expanded/added to later). Doing all this would take a lot of work, though I'm sure mappers would have some fun making the territories and bases.

AH...and while I did talk about factional bases a bit...I should elaborate a little...there would be safe-zones inside the bases, and opposing teams won't be able to enter. These should be kept as small as possible-they are just spawn points for where a trainer goes if beaten in battle. The rest of the bases are entirely free to explore by anyone, with one small tweak- invading players themselves cannot start a battle with members of the defending faction, but the defenders can start battles with the invaders. I thought this would be a good idea, but I can see how it won't work well in certain cases. The defenders should have some sort of advantage over invaders in their base; I mean its quite logical. Also, respawn points should be a decent distance away from major points of conflict, so they cannot simply rejoin battle too quickly. Perhaps a small temporary penalty could be incurred on defeated players? Like max HP or stats of entire team to 70% for 5-10 mins?

Wow...long post...but I hope that this would clear up most questions on the basic principles. Any feedback/questions are welcome.
But doing quests again is much more fun if you have to battle other players and like I battle John23 first and second Richard5, so it will be different every time, the clan wars are fun.
What if you have clans like:
Rocket (grunts)
Galactic (grunts)
Aqua (grunts)
Magma (grunts)
just trainers

Sorry for the not original names, but you can get grunt points and when they get level up, they get money, items and eventually pokemon, while trainers can do quests. So they don't really need quests but objectives for grunts.
Let's just have fun on the forum, until the game is released!

Offline white kaj

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Re: Thrawting Team (insert here)'s evil plans!!
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2011, 09:25:48 pm »
i have an idea! so if we dont want to be unfair because the grunts could steal pokemon, they could only steal npcs (not all of them) after defeating them and it would be unfair if they kept it right?then instead of keeping them they could give them to their bosses for instance.
what do u think about that.
this idea came from ur objectie of stealing the eggs and giving to the boss/team(something).
Charizard!