Entry Hazards, no more?

[Bing]

I just played 10 matches in PO and everyone either had a combo of, stealth rock + spikes or stealth rock + toxic spikes.

[Noah_Road]

I personally think that SR should not be taken out. Yes, SR targets certain pokemon and makes them useless (Cahrizard) but its also strategy that many competative players like to use. Game Freak saw that SR really screws with alot of people so they effectively cut the usage of it. They cut SR from the TM list and made it to where gen 4 pokemon with they move can't be as useful in gen 5. This has actually cut down the useage of Stealth Rocks by at least 34% since B/W came out in Japan.

I think that SR should not be a TM but only available to those that can learn it by lv up in gen 5. If it was a TM, maybe it would be one of those TMs that you could only get by winning an event. This would make sure that the move isn't used as much in PU's PvP and ensure that certain flying/bug/fire/ice types can be used in the metagame.

[Bing]

I personally think that SR should not be taken out. Yes, SR targets certain pokemon and makes them useless (Cahrizard) but its also strategy that many competative players like to use. Game Freak saw that SR really screws with alot of people so they effectively cut the usage of it. They cut SR from the TM list and made it to where gen 4 pokemon with they move can't be as useful in gen 5. This has actually cut down the useage of Stealth Rocks by at least 34% since B/W came out in Japan.

I think that SR should not be a TM but only available to those that can learn it by lv up in gen 5. If it was a TM, maybe it would be one of those TMs that you could only get by winning an event. This would make sure that the move isn't used as much in PU's PvP and ensure that certain flying/bug/fire/ice types can be used in the metagame.

This says one thing.  That gamefreak understands the mistake they made with SR.  But, they can't remove it because of it's popularity.  So they just limited it.  Really SR not being PU is better and there are other entry hazards you can use.

[Level5Pidgey]

I personally think that SR should not be taken out. Yes, SR targets certain pokemon and makes them useless (Cahrizard) but its also strategy that many competative players like to use. Game Freak saw that SR really screws with alot of people so they effectively cut the usage of it. They cut SR from the TM list and made it to where gen 4 pokemon with they move can't be as useful in gen 5. This has actually cut down the useage of Stealth Rocks by at least 34% since B/W came out in Japan.

I think that SR should not be a TM but only available to those that can learn it by lv up in gen 5. If it was a TM, maybe it would be one of those TMs that you could only get by winning an event. This would make sure that the move isn't used as much in PU's PvP and ensure that certain flying/bug/fire/ice types can be used in the metagame.

So, instead of fixing an obvious balance issue - we should try to sweep it under the rug and fragment movepools as much as possible so it's hard to use?

Just because a small number of people swear by it, while a lot of people in the community think it's over-centralising?

I dunno, I personally think that it's better to just remove it in this case.

Only a few people will be annoyed, a lot will be relieved, and it won't lead to annoying fragmentation of moves.

[cocopuff641]

krabby + Guillotine = Win If Your a Lower Lvl =/

[Noah_Road]

I personally think that SR should not be taken out. Yes, SR targets certain pokemon and makes them useless (Cahrizard) but its also strategy that many competative players like to use. Game Freak saw that SR really screws with alot of people so they effectively cut the usage of it. They cut SR from the TM list and made it to where gen 4 pokemon with they move can't be as useful in gen 5. This has actually cut down the useage of Stealth Rocks by at least 34% since B/W came out in Japan.

I think that SR should not be a TM but only available to those that can learn it by lv up in gen 5. If it was a TM, maybe it would be one of those TMs that you could only get by winning an event. This would make sure that the move isn't used as much in PU's PvP and ensure that certain flying/bug/fire/ice types can be used in the metagame.

So, instead of fixing an obvious balance issue - we should try to sweep it under the rug and fragment movepools as much as possible so it's hard to use?

Just because a small number of people swear by it, while a lot of people in the community think it's over-centralising?

I dunno, I personally think that it's better to just remove it in this case.

Only a few people will be annoyed, a lot will be relieved, and it won't lead to annoying fragmentation of moves.

Honestly, there is no winning argument for Stealth Rocks. When Game Freak admits that maybe the move is a problem, then there is deffinetly a problem. I just think that getting rid of the problem at hand ruins the chance for us to come up with new ways of countering the problem. Maybe PU can add an effect for certain attacks that rid the battlefield of SR. All I am saying is getting rid of SR is a--for a lack of a better word--borring aproach to the problem even if it is the best and easiest option.

[Frenchfry]

it is the best and easiest option.

The end.

[Level5Pidgey]

Honestly, there is no winning argument for Stealth Rocks. When Game Freak admits that maybe the move is a problem, then there is deffinetly a problem. I just think that getting rid of the problem at hand ruins the chance for us to come up with new ways of countering the problem. Maybe PU can add an effect for certain attacks that rid the battlefield of SR. All I am saying is getting rid of SR is a--for a lack of a better word--borring aproach to the problem even if it is the best and easiest option.

I can't really speak for how Game Freak views balance in Pokemon. Sometimes I see something they do, and I believe that they understand a balance concern and have done their best to rectify it (Ditto), but other times, I see something they have done that says otherwise (Flareon, other mediocre Pokemon that never get *that one thing* they need).

But, that doesn't matter, Game Freak is not an important variable in my balance decisions, because I feel like I know the game and metagame well enough to make my own judgements.
I see Stealth Rock as bad for reasons I've stated, and I feel inclined to say that you agree.

Where we disagree is where I think that the best way to solve a balance issue is probably the simplest (Occam's Razor), where as you think that a balance issue should be made rare, and should be kept in the game for players to play around to make it more exciting.

I'm hoping that the game will be interesting enough without needing to force people to play against imbalanced scenarios XP

[Bing]

Pidegey, has a major point.  PU is not Gamefreak, and if PU's balance team feels it is best to remove stealth rock then thats that.  I personally agree wholeheartedly with the the decision to remove SR.  I would love to put Charizard on my PO team, but I can't because of the amount of people that spam SR.

[Kamaran]

seems like this is end of the discussion.

/locked

If you want it reopened, please contact me on the chat.