Pokemon Universe MMORPG
Pokémon Discussion => Games => Topic started by: Ice Warrior Astral on September 10, 2011, 08:48:11 PM
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Every time I'm using one of my mono type teams on PO I see someone using Speed Boost Blaziken on most mono fire or fighting teams.I ask myself why?Blaze Blazikens are rarely seen in battles.Since Blaziken got its DW ability Blaze has become redundant.I run a mono fire team myself and I use Blaziken.A BLAZE Blaziken. So why do some use Speed Boost over Blaze?I don't get it.Blaze is just as good as Speed Boost,so why not use Blaze?
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Blaze is just as good as speed boost .... u're funny , with the right items and EVs speed boost is way stronger than blaze
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And... with all the different types of moves, you might as well end up with a battle where you didn't use Blaze at all, while you would have made use of speed Boost a lot more (as it activates every end of turn, instead of activating on specific events)
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Speed boost is a much better and more useful ability than blaze, it's just a fact. After only one turn, Blaziken is almost guarrenteed to be faster than it's oppenent, and with the right moves ans stats, it'll be able to take out its oppenents easily. Where as blaze doesn't really add to much to Blaziken, it's practically useless by most standards.
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Without sppedboost, Blaziken is entirely outclassed by Infernape. There really isn't much to discuss about this.
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I see speedboost more useful, blaziken is a pretty strong pokemon, and blaze only works at hp lower than 25%
Speedboost makes sure blaziken can outrun alot of pokémon.
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The Blaziken I use has Flame Charge And Bulk Up.I'm now starting to see what you think about this.Speed Boost beats Blaze hands down.When I started battling on PO in April I have started to lose interest in battling.No one shows a bit of originality in their teams.One person asked me "Would you rather be a bog standard winner or a creative loser?"I rather be beaten by those who understands true strength than false.Just call me Ash on this one.Just find my poem and read it.I don't like over powering my opponents I want them have a fair battle.
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I always feel statisfied when I beat a competitive team with simply my own favourite chosen team, even when it doesn't happen often. I'm not a good competitive battler, because I mainly suck at setting up teams. However when I got my team ready each of my pokémon have their tricks into winning.
I was already impressed when I defeated two level 100 legendary pokemon with my 65+ team. ~
However we're going a tad off-topic, this is about blazikens best ability to have.
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The Blaziken I use has Flame Charge And Bulk Up.I'm now starting to see what you think about this.Speed Boost beats Blaze hands down.When I started battling on PO in April I have started to lose interest in battling.No one shows a bit of originality in their teams.One person asked me "Would you rather be a bog standard winner or a creative loser?"I rather be beaten by those who understands true strength than false.Just call me Ash on this one.Just find my poem and read it.I don't like over powering my opponents I want them have a fair battle.
This is pretty much the same as saying "Thats the best weapon in the shop, but choosing it isn't very creative, so I'm going to take the one that gives you a lower stat boost, just because I think everyone else is going to buy it, and that's unoriginal.
Why purposely handicap yourself? Its not like you gain anything out of it.
Now, copying a party off of smogon or something is stupid, and anyone that does is pathetic. But if you happen to make a build, completely on your own, maybe think of it while having a conversation about parties, thats fine. You didn't purposely go and find something to tell you what to do. But if you find something, and you know it is clearly better than what you have, why are you going to be stupid enough to not take advantage of that just because someone else realised it was good before you?
Thats not a valid reason to not do something.
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Blaziken is frail so he gets OHKOd by most hits anyway. Blaze isn't *that* useful.
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Anyway, the "strong vs. creative" argument is an interesting one.
A lot of people like to make more creative teams because it requires more strategy and thinking - they wish to give themselves a bit of a handicap to make the game more surprising. Also, the element of surprise can help a tad - it's not like a lot of people carry dedicated counters to Dustox, right?
Honestly I don't mind having a weaker team if it makes the battle less mind-numbingly stale.
Similarly people get annoyed when others use cookie-cutter teams, as, again - it makes the battle boring as hell. I stopped playing OU because I was annoyed at just seeing Blissey, Scizor, TTar, Infernape every single damn battle.
There's a reason why RU is currently many battler's favourite tier in Gen V - there's just so much variety, and with a number of new moves, dream world abilities and items - the tier actually has some awesome threats. Also UU is currently messed up.
This is partially why we're balancing in PU - not just so people can use their favourites, but so the game has some variety during tournaments.
Not much use in holding tournaments if every player has the same cookie cutter team.
It also gives players incentive to train more Pokemon rather than just the usual OUs - to discover each Pokemon's new potential.
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if you want a Blaziken with Speed Boost to have +1 on speed right on the start, you just need to put Protect on him, then add Fire Punch, High Jump Kick and Earthquake, and put a Air Ballon on it, everytime i used it like this, works perfectly, u use protect on the first turn and you automaticly have +1 Speed Stat, that can turn tables all arround.
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Fire punch over something like Flare Blitz? I can understand the want for a STAB move that doesn't have recoil but the BP difference is usually what makes many 2HKOs into OHKOs.
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if you want to make your Blaziken with Flare Blitz you can, but its better that you have HP to when you use High Jump Kick, if it misses, its a problem.
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Very true. The accuracy boost with HJK is nice but I still don't like the 10% of losing a big chunk of HP then being hit by an incomming attack.
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I'll say one thing. I was told that hitmontop would make my fighting team better. I said screw that, hitmontop sucks. I only use what I like and that's it. Though I will say that as far as battling goes, speed boost beats blaze by a mile. If you like blaziken you shouldn't have a problem using speed boost, because it makes a pokemon you like better.
And yes cookie cutter teams piss me off to no end. Screw Jirachi!
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I use pokes that work for my style. I personaly hate blaziken so i don't use it. If I had to I would go with Speed boost because it is much better then blaze.
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Blaziken as it is now in the "real" game is considered UBER, and I would never use it in a match unless stated before that it will be an ubers match.
I dont mind using legends when playing.
As long as you play within the correct tier there shouldnt be a problem
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Blaziken as it is now in the "real" game is considered UBER, and I would never use it in a match unless stated before that it will be an ubers match.
I dont mind using legends when playing.
As long as you play within the correct tier there shouldnt be a problem
Its only considered Uber if it has Speed Boost, and personaly, i have used a Infernape and its WAYS better than Blaziken with Speed Boost, and if my Infernape had Iron Fist it would be even better because i ussualy only use Punch on it.
ATTENCION - I only say this because everytime a Blaziken with Speed Boost is agaisnt me in PO, i use my Infernape with Iron Fist and 1HKO the Blazikens every time, dont come and hate me because of what i said...
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Blaziken as it is now in the "real" game is considered UBER, and I would never use it in a match unless stated before that it will be an ubers match.
I dont mind using legends when playing.
As long as you play within the correct tier there shouldnt be a problem
Its only considered Uber if it has Speed Boost, and personaly, i have used a Infernape and its WAYS better than Blaziken with Speed Boost, and if my Infernape had Iron Fist it would be even better because i ussualy only use Punch on it.
ATTENCION - I only say this because everytime a Blaziken with Speed Boost is agaisnt me in PO, i use my Infernape with Iron Fist and 1HKO the Blazikens every time, dont come and hate me because of what i said...
What are you OHKOing Blaziken with? After a speed boost Blazi OHKO's with just about anything. I agree with you though; I will go down to my grave saying that Infernape is better with Blaziken with or without speed boost.
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What are you OHKOing Blaziken with? After a speed boost Blazi OHKO's with just about anything. I agree with you though; I will go down to my grave saying that Infernape is better with Blaziken with or without speed boost.
simple, i have 3 Punch moves, Thunder Punch, Fire Punch and Mach Punch, the other move can be eather Earthquake or Fake Out. Fake Out cancels 1 move of Blaziken and finishes with Mach Punch, in other words, 2HKO, Earthquake its the one that OHKO Blaziken and which i ussualy use.
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Most people go with a protect/speed boost combo so itd be kinda hard to 1st strike/OHKO it. I personally like to give it brave bird because its pretty effective and i can simply use a fighting move on rock, steel, etc.
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Most people go with a protect/speed boost combo so itd be kinda hard to 1st strike/OHKO it. I personally like to give it brave bird because its pretty effective and i can simply use a fighting move on rock, steel, etc.
thats how my Infernape is able to OHKO or 2HKO a Blaziken, because of Protect. when a person Switches to Blaziken, i make sure i have another pokemon in front, so i Switch to Infernape and he uses Protect for nothing, then i use Fake Out and Mach Punch that are both Priority moves, or just use Earthquake
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What are you OHKOing Blaziken with? After a speed boost Blazi OHKO's with just about anything. I agree with you though; I will go down to my grave saying that Infernape is better with Blaziken with or without speed boost.
simple, i have 3 Punch moves, Thunder Punch, Fire Punch and Mach Punch, the other move can be eather Earthquake or Fake Out. Fake Out cancels 1 move of Blaziken and finishes with Mach Punch, in other words, 2HKO, Earthquake its the one that OHKO Blaziken and which i ussualy use.
Sorry to contradict, but Fake Out + Mach Punch won't 2HKO Blaziken unless there is a crit in one of those attacks. Plus Infernape has to come in perfectly on the switch if he wants to use Fake Out. Since switching in makes protect fail, Blaziken can then use protect again while you use Fake out then survive the Mach Punch to OHKO. Iron First doesn't raise Infernape's attacks as much as it needs to and he is actually better off staying with Blaze. At least with Blaze he isn't restricted to weak physical sets. With Blaze Infernape can abuse life orb even further and can utilize the mixed sets he's famous for. Also, a strict Iron First physical set is completely walled by ground types.
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I have been using a speed boost set for blaziken... it can tear through entire teams if they don't parahax him or don't have priory moves. as soon as you get one swords dance, and a speed boost... its over.
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I have been using a speed boost set for blaziken... it can tear through entire teams if they don't parahax him or don't have priory moves. as soon as you get one swords dance, and a speed boost... its over.
sorry but thats not interely true, if the other as a pokemon with Prankster like Whimsicott or Tornadus use a move to make you switch out your Blaziken, the status +6 go away
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people never use them and I am able to take out a large chunk of their team, and if he is going to get killed I turn him into a suicide bomber. Once he goes out he doesn't come back unless he in fainted. That's just how i use him, and no I don't like him at all.
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ok i was just making a point on how to stop the blaziken
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Yeah I know, i am not hating on you, I am just saying it can be a real pain to shut them down once they get a sweep set up.
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Infernape cant beat and is in no way better than blaziken who needs speed boost to be anygood at all... Honestly both him and infernape is broken blaziken without max speed isnt outspeeding alotta key pokemon but blaziken without max attack is just a slow infernape
charizard owns them both with the right items
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Infernape cant beat and is in no way better than blaziken who needs speed boost to be anygood at all... Honestly both him and infernape is broken blaziken without max speed isnt outspeeding alotta key pokemon but blaziken without max attack is just a slow infernape
charizard owns them both with the right items
Bringing Charizard into this now :O
Charizard will never beat a speedboost Blaziken, it outsepeeds and OHKOs with Stone Edge. Infernape can beat Charizard most of the time if its carrying Thunderpunch or Stone Edge. Both of these attacks are rare on Infernape though so Charizard can come in easily to scare Infernape out.
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Infernape cant beat and is in no way better than blaziken who needs speed boost to be anygood at all... Honestly both him and infernape is broken blaziken without max speed isnt outspeeding alotta key pokemon but blaziken without max attack is just a slow infernape
charizard owns them both with the right items
Bringing Charizard into this now :O
Charizard will never beat a speedboost Blaziken, it outsepeeds and OHKOs with Stone Edge. Infernape can beat Charizard most of the time if its carrying Thunderpunch or Stone Edge. Both of these attacks are rare on Infernape though so Charizard can come in easily to scare Infernape out.
My Infernape runs thunder punch. It's great when someone switches in a Gyrados. (Which is the main reason I run it.)
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thunder punch wont kill charizard and stone edge can miss all u have to do is give charizard a scarf and there both dead or u could give him sash and there both dead he is not faster than charizard after one speed boost
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thunder punch wont kill charizard and stone edge can miss all u have to do is give charizard a scarf and there both dead or u could give him sash and there both dead he is not faster than charizard after one speed boost
When talking about giving items to pokemon in a 1v1 battle, you must always assume that the opponent can have the same item. Since Infernape has a higher base speed than Charizard, Infernape can use a choice scarf as well and outspeed Charizard. T-punch (using iron fist) and Stone Edge will OHKO a Charizard. The same goes for focus sash; Infernape will attack, survive the Air Slash, then retaliate for the KO. Blaziken is a bit different. You wouldn't scarf something that has speed boost so a scarfed Charizard would outspeed it even after a single boost. However if they are both equiped with a focus sash, then Blaziken will come out on top most of the time.
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thunder punch wont kill charizard and stone edge can miss all u have to do is give charizard a scarf and there both dead or u could give him sash and there both dead he is not faster than charizard after one speed boost
As Blaziken, Charizard and Infernape aren't usually run to counter each other, it's silly to make up sets purely to counter them.
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thunder punch wont kill charizard and stone edge can miss all u have to do is give charizard a scarf and there both dead or u could give him sash and there both dead he is not faster than charizard after one speed boost
When talking about giving items to pokemon in a 1v1 battle, you must always assume that the opponent can have the same item. Since Infernape has a higher base speed than Charizard, Infernape can use a choice scarf as well and outspeed Charizard. T-punch (using iron fist) and Stone Edge will OHKO a Charizard. The same goes for focus sash; Infernape will attack, survive the Air Slash, then retaliate for the KO. Blaziken is a bit different. You wouldn't scarf something that has speed boost so a scarfed Charizard would outspeed it even after a single boost. However if they are both equiped with a focus sash, then Blaziken will come out on top most of the time.
thunder punch will not kill charizard even with iron fist which is a horrible ability i think and i dont think he can learn any rock move stronger than rockslide and ok lets say with no items then...charizard still beats them both... well he may lose to infernape but im sry infernape is one of the worst pokemon ever made he dont kill nothing in one hit and he gets taken out in one hit
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thunder punch wont kill charizard and stone edge can miss all u have to do is give charizard a scarf and there both dead or u could give him sash and there both dead he is not faster than charizard after one speed boost
When talking about giving items to pokemon in a 1v1 battle, you must always assume that the opponent can have the same item. Since Infernape has a higher base speed than Charizard, Infernape can use a choice scarf as well and outspeed Charizard. T-punch (using iron fist) and Stone Edge will OHKO a Charizard. The same goes for focus sash; Infernape will attack, survive the Air Slash, then retaliate for the KO. Blaziken is a bit different. You wouldn't scarf something that has speed boost so a scarfed Charizard would outspeed it even after a single boost. However if they are both equiped with a focus sash, then Blaziken will come out on top most of the time.
thunder punch will not kill charizard even with iron fist which is a horrible ability i think and i dont think he can learn any rock move stronger than rockslide and ok lets say with no items then...charizard still beats them both... well he may lose to infernape but im sry infernape is one of the worst pokemon ever made he dont kill nothing in one hit and he gets taken out in one hit
Iron fist Thunderpunch comming from an Infernape can and will OHKO Charizard everytime. Both Blazi and Infernape learn Stone Edge--the strongest distributed rock type move in the game which will always OHKO Charizard who is 4xs weak to rock type moves. Even a rockslide will OHKO it. You should probably check the damage calculators. In a 1v1 battle, Infernape will always be able to beat Charizard. Blaziken with speed boost will also always be able to beat out Charizard. Out of the 3 fire starters here, Charizard is actually the worst one since its hindered by a horrible rock type weakeness and dismal speed.
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thunder punch wont kill charizard and stone edge can miss all u have to do is give charizard a scarf and there both dead or u could give him sash and there both dead he is not faster than charizard after one speed boost
When talking about giving items to pokemon in a 1v1 battle, you must always assume that the opponent can have the same item. Since Infernape has a higher base speed than Charizard, Infernape can use a choice scarf as well and outspeed Charizard. T-punch (using iron fist) and Stone Edge will OHKO a Charizard. The same goes for focus sash; Infernape will attack, survive the Air Slash, then retaliate for the KO. Blaziken is a bit different. You wouldn't scarf something that has speed boost so a scarfed Charizard would outspeed it even after a single boost. However if they are both equiped with a focus sash, then Blaziken will come out on top most of the time.
thunder punch will not kill charizard even with iron fist which is a horrible ability i think and i dont think he can learn any rock move stronger than rockslide and ok lets say with no items then...charizard still beats them both... well he may lose to infernape but im sry infernape is one of the worst pokemon ever made he dont kill nothing in one hit and he gets taken out in one hit
Iron fist Thunderpunch comming from an Infernape can and will OHKO Charizard everytime. Both Blazi and Infernape learn Stone Edge--the strongest distributed rock type move in the game which will always OHKO Charizard who is 4xs weak to rock type moves. Even a rockslide will OHKO it. You should probably check the damage calculators. In a 1v1 battle, Infernape will always be able to beat Charizard. Blaziken with speed boost will also always be able to beat out Charizard. Out of the 3 fire starters here, Charizard is actually the worst one since its hindered by a horrible rock type weakeness and dismal speed.
Dont even bother arguing with him. He has no idea what hes talking about and and will never realize how wrong his previous statement was on so many levels.
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u can say that all u want but i've used one and it suck didt ohko anything and i mean any thing never even beat anything unless i used it to revenge kill i've even battle zoro's a lot of times his infernape never took out my charizard and he always thuinder punched it same with ms ice his thunder punch dont kill my charizard so i dont see how it ohko's any other and i've used the thing its not anywhere near reliable as the other fir pokemon...any of them it sucked so bad everyone i battle yanks it off their team he just looks sweet and thats it
still this is all just my thaughts on him not trying to offend u noah but this has already been proven to me several times cuz my charizard has no def stat what-so ever and infernape never once ko'd it....and lately i havent even battled any on PO he's just not a good pokemon to me or to use against me
and also my favorit fire starter is blaziken and always has been but he with one speed boost has never out sped my charizard he needs two
i just checked it out its cuz my charizard is scarfed and he thwarts blaziken everytime so in my book he is better cuz ppl never scarf there blaziken yes in fernape can beat him but he has never beaten my charizard with no thunder punch so this is false its a three way cirlce cuz blaziken cant beat charizard and he creams infernape and charizard cant beat infernape but when it comes to beating other pokemon i have no faith nor have i ever seen infernape take anything out he hits it extremly hard and then gets taken out every time thats what ive seen in every battle hes beenin unless he has a mach punch to back him up he is useless and blaziken with speed boost is something i would trust to take out alot of pokemmon along with charizard but im sry i would never again use an infernape they suk
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Smgon Damage Calculator Results:
Infnerape@Adamant Nature
252Atl/64Sp.Atk/192Speed
Using: Thunderpunch
Vs.
Charizard@Timid
252Sp.Atk/252Sp/4Def
Results: 282 - 332-94.9% - 111.8%
So an iron fist Infernape using Thunderpunch has a 6% chance of NOT OHKOing a charizard. What I've noticed on Zoracorio is that he doesn't use the standard EV sets, which mean that he's probably making use of weaker/more unique Infernape sets.
Infnerape@Adamant Nature
252Atl/64Sp.Atk/192Speed
Using: Stone Edge
Vs.
Charizard@Timid
252Sp.Atk/252Sp/4Def
Results: 592 - 700-199.3% - 235.7%
This means that a Stone Edge is going to always OHKO a Charizard. For kicks and giggles I went back to claculate Rock Slide as well.
Infnerape@Adamant Nature
252Atl/64Sp.Atk/192Speed
Using: Rock Slide
Vs.
Charizard@Timid
252Sp.Atk/252Sp/4Def
Results: 448 - 528-150.8% - 177.8%
Rock Slide comming from an Infernape will also always OHKO a Charizard.
Point being that a standard Infernape (and to an extent, Speed Boost Blaziken) will always beat out Charizard by exploiting its crippling rock weakness. I get into competative debates pretty easliy.
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Uhhhh,i couldn't help but join the chat.
But deadae,that infernape can't have max attack.Same with the blaziken,it did not have max speed.
I use a charizard,he is my all time favourite pokémon.And id say 70% of all super effective attacks OHKO it.
Btw scarfing your charizard to me looks like an obselete idea.Charizard isn't a pokémon made to go and come repeatidly.Predicting and SR will shave off Charizard.
Also i wont let you call Infernape a weak pokémon.And this makes me believe that you don't have that much knowlegend of battling.
Infernape can make a great lead,and a great sweeper.Both physical or special.Or EVEN mixed.
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Uhhhh,i couldn't help but join the chat.
But deadae,that infernape can't have max attack.Same with the blaziken,it did not have max speed.
I use a charizard,he is my all time favourite pokémon.And id say 70% of all super effective attacks OHKO it.
Btw scarfing your charizard to me looks like an obselete idea.Charizard isn't a pokémon made to go and come repeatidly.Predicting and SR will shave off Charizard.
Also i wont let you call Infernape a weak pokémon.And this makes me believe that you don't have that much knowlegend of battling.
Infernape can make a great lead,and a great sweeper.Both physical or special.Or EVEN mixed.
You're late then :P
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Im always late Jerry :P
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yeah my fire team is epic noah
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Uhhhh,i couldn't help but join the chat.
But deadae,that infernape can't have max attack.Same with the blaziken,it did not have max speed.
I use a charizard,he is my all time favourite pokémon.And id say 70% of all super effective attacks OHKO it.
Btw scarfing your charizard to me looks like an obselete idea.Charizard isn't a pokémon made to go and come repeatidly.Predicting and SR will shave off Charizard.
Also i wont let you call Infernape a weak pokémon.And this makes me believe that you don't have that much knowlegend of battling.
Infernape can make a great lead,and a great sweeper.Both physical or special.Or EVEN mixed.
if u think there is a problem with my knowlege of battle take me on and ill destroy u
my main reason for saying he sux compared to chaizard wasnt because chaizard can beat him its because charizard wins against alot of pokemon while infernape does not..ive used him and as a lead and i think he is a pathetic lead no where near as good as aerodactyl or metagross he is a horrible sweeper because hes too frail to build up stats he is a great reveng3e killer and nothing more he cane come out finish some thing off and u-turn outta thee to do it again thats all hes good for
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Well then,there is also alot of pokémon that Infernape can put to shame while Charizard is nearly useless.
Also,somethink is going very wrong with that Infernape.And wath's the problem with a sweeper being frail?Wath whas a sweeper made to do...leave a mark on the other team.
Does Infernape do that?Yes it does.
You basically calling,a top tier DPP and a still high ranking after 5th gen pokémon,weak.
And sure,itl be my pleasure to fight you.
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Deadea, just letting you know, Infernape has been a top tier threat since DPP. Its one of the most threatening sweepers able to break stall teams easily. Just about every sweeper is frail, its just a generalization. Because of Stealh Rocks, Infernape is able to beat much more of the metagame than Charizard ever could. Infernape doesn't need to build up stats because his offensive stats are already high enough to do massive damage. Sorry but the kinda ignorant comments about Infernape are just...wrong.
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Okay, before there is another whipping of word around, let me remind you that the OP is about Blaziken's two abilities and not about Infernape or Charizard.
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I still think that SB Blaziken is still messed up.All I can say is there are a small few people who think that they can win without being a sheep.
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Speed Boost is better and more fun to play in my opinion.
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yeah it lot better to play with then blaze