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Author Topic: [GUILD] Elemental Elites  (Read 192720 times)

Offline Roloc

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #960 on: October 31, 2013, 10:20:06 pm »
Stealth Rocks will not be in PU. Unless gamefreak changes it to do 25% to all pokemon and not 50% to some and 15% to some. Spikes and t-spikes work just as good and actually take some skill to use. rapid spin/stealth rock battles are not skill.

Aegislash never stands a chance against my mega scizor. IT's way to easy to counter. I've set up and killed it so many times it's just pitiful. Wait till I know it's going to use kings shield and use Swords Dance then hit it with thief.

Thief getting buffed up to 60 damage is awesome. 90 base power on scizor now. :D
Which is another great buff for scizor, I used to always have to have a fighting attack on scizor for coverage but now that steel doesn't resist dark, thief is the way to go. Knock off is great to but thief for more damage. In one battle some guy actually used knock off on my scizor and then I stole life orb with thief. Best battle ever.
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Offline Chad29

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #961 on: October 31, 2013, 10:39:53 pm »
This reminds me of when I first saw Rhyperior. I LOVED that one of my favorite old school pokemon got an evolution, but many fans were unimpressed. I'm sure that someone will find a way to bring out Aegislash's potential, even if it is just a niche role.

Offline Mr. Fox

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #962 on: November 01, 2013, 08:20:42 am »
Used properly, Agieslash can be a top tier threat. With it's stats, and a Stab priority it can destroy everything, considering steel lost it's resistance to ghost. And for normal types, scared blade tears them up. Yes it's really predictable, but that can be used if you do it right, I'm acutually contemplating switching to steel just so I can use him in EE.

Offline Roloc

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #963 on: November 01, 2013, 01:44:26 pm »
I actually don't see it being that big of a threat. I'm starting to see it diminish in game and on the sims.
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Offline Chad29

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #964 on: November 01, 2013, 01:52:41 pm »
Actually if you're getting priority, then if the enemy survives they will hit you outside of defense stance.

Offline Tickles

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #965 on: November 01, 2013, 01:55:42 pm »
I have an Agieslash on my game that does really well in battles. It is more of a late game, but I favored Swords dance over King's shield, since most people try to use a set up when it's out anyway, then prio STAB things to death with Shadow Sneak. Slower pokes take a huge hit from Iron head, and normal types get owned by Sacred Sword. Like I said, it's a great late game sweeper, but even early game it can take out some of the more frail sweepers for you so you can mop up with your best sweeper, or bring out a more bulky pokemon for some easy set-ups. I don't see it as a niche poke, you just have to make its ability work for you, and decide, should I go pivot offense defense, straight offense, or straight defense. Straight offense seems to work our pretty well, going to hatch a new one and try to make a defensive set.
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Offline Chad29

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #966 on: November 01, 2013, 02:07:06 pm »
I'm glad some poeple have hope for it. How's your group been doing, Cortex J?

Offline Tickles

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #967 on: November 01, 2013, 02:59:42 pm »
We're doing well. Not much going on now. I can't seem to really find anyone to get a guild event going.
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Offline Noah_Road

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #968 on: November 05, 2013, 02:19:00 am »
Just saw someone completely decimate with Aegislash. I am now changing my opinion on it. As long as Aegislash does not use Kings Sheild and makes use of its 150 Sp.Atk stat with its 150 Atk stat, it is actually one of the best pivots in gen 6. Someone should try this set!

Aegislahs @ Life Orb
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Quiet Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak

Aegislash takes full advantage of Steel Types losing their resistance to Ghost. Aegislash actually OHKO's standard CB Scizor with Shadow Ball (mega Scizor still laughs at it and sets up XD). The combination of Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak 1-2HKO's a ton of threats that wall the Swords Dance set o.o I might have to try to use this mixed Aegislash in-game.

Also, check out this battle http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/frost-pokebankoubeta-46791

Clefable will probably be my signature Pokemon. This thing is super bulky with its mono-Fairy typing. It takes a Bullet Punch from a mega Scizor and a Sludge Bomb from mega Gengar after a Calm Mind boost and destroys both of them! I've been running Magic Guard to avoid status and entry hazards. However, set up sweepers seem to be much more of a threat in the PU meta so Unaware might be the better ability. What do you guys think?

P.S. Mega Gyarados needs Crunch. Badly.
                                            
Psychic Power=Imagination+Dreams

Offline Chad29

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #969 on: November 05, 2013, 02:28:55 am »
Did they not even give him crunch when they decided on having him be part dark? That's just insult to injury.

The move that's supposed to make up for Aegislash's pitiful defense and speed, and the recommendation is to just forgo it. I never liked combining low defenses and low speed.

Clefable is pretty boss!

Offline Roloc

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #970 on: November 05, 2013, 03:42:30 am »
Really? What kind of clefable are you running? I have never lost my mega scizor to a clefable. I always 1-2 HKO it with bullet punch. Depending on if I have a SD under my belt. OHKO if I do, 2HKO if I don't. I'm interested in seeing what clefable you have that will stop mega scizor from killing it on the second turn.  Cause bulky mega scizor can take a non-stab unboosted flamethrower.
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Offline Noah_Road

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #971 on: November 05, 2013, 05:04:00 pm »
With the special moves being nerfed, Flamethrower isn't worth it unless you have STAB. I'm running 252 Def/128 HP/128 Sp.Atk Bold Clefable to guarantee surviving BP from both Scizors, Lucario, and even Iron Head from Mega Mawile 63% of the time. Fire Blast is what OHKO's Scizor. If Mega Scizor gets a SD, then Clefable can't take a BP but I'm usually on the field before Scizor is. Running Unaware instead of Magic Guard would ignore Swords Dance but leave me vulnerable to Toxic....so I'm not sure which I want to run XD
                                            
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Offline Roloc

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #972 on: November 05, 2013, 08:38:26 pm »
Oh your talking about fire blast. Is it worth it with that miss chance? 1 miss is all it takes to cause the loss of a game. Which is why I always run accuracy over power.
I'd rather do some damage and lose my poke rather then do no damage and lose my poke.

Speaking of accuracy, I think I need to stop using air slash. Seriously, it misses more then stone edge and it's only a 5% chance to miss. xD
I actually lost a game the other day cause I missed with air slash 3 times back to back. What are the odds of that happening. lql

NINJASKEDIT:
Ran some damage calcs, clefable won't OHKO bulky mega scizor unless it's modest + life orb with 252 spatk. And who doesnt run bulky mega scizor? IT's so much easier to set up and sweep with it.

I'm okay with this. An offensive clefable is MUCH easier to handle then a bulky one.

NinjaskEdit:
Here are the results of the damage calc:

Bulky scizor
EVS:
108 Atk
252 HP
150 SpDef

Clefable:
EVs:
252 Def
128 HP
128 SpAtk

128 SpA Clefable Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 150 SpD Scizor: 300-356 (87.2 - 103.48%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

108+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 128 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (53.16 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is using 40 base power bullet punch and 110 base power fire blast.

Bulky Mega Scizor wins 75% of the time.


Haven't done this much number crunching in pokemon since gen 2. It brings back some good memories. Sure is easier to do the number crunching now though. ._.
Fun fun.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 04:38:35 am by Roloc »
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Offline Noah_Road

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #973 on: November 06, 2013, 09:58:49 pm »
Fire Blast accuracy sucks, but as we all know, its better to be able to counter your weaknesses than to check them. Mega Scizor laughs at Flamethrower from non Modest Clefable and I'd rather take the 75% chance to hit and OHKO than take 2 Bullet Punches and die.

Also, your calcs are off.

Normal Scizor:
124 SpA Bold Clefable Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 412-488 (120.11 - 142.27%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Scizor:
124 SpA Bold Clefable Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD (custom): 344-408 (100.29 - 118.95%) -- guaranteed OHKO

These are standard sets with HP investment.

Scizor with Sp.Def investment:
124 SpA Bold Clefable Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Scizor: 316-376 (112.45 - 133.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Mega Scizor with Sp.Def investment:
124 SpA Bold Clefable Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD (custom): 272-324 (96.79 - 115.3%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO

So even with Sp.Def investment, I still have a good chance to OHKO Mega Scizor without having to compromise my bulk to take a Bullet Punch (Clefable CAN'T take a Bullet Punch with any less bulk). You could invest in both HP and Sp.Def but you would have to give up Atk EVs which would potentially let Cleable avoid a 2HKO Bullet Punch. I'd actually really like to test that.

So far, I'm not getting too unlucky with the Fire Blast missing but it is a huge risk. Ideally, if Scizor is already on the field, I'd like to just go into either Klefki or Mawile and either Foul Play or Fire Fang Scizor but Bullet Punch is still really hurts Klefki even though its nuetral.
                                            
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Offline Roloc

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Re: [GUILD] Elemental Elites
« Reply #974 on: November 06, 2013, 10:21:51 pm »
No, my calcs are spot on. You miss read I'm afraid. I use the same bulky scizor from smogon. A lot of people run this build to survive non boosted fire attacks.

NinjaskEdit:
Here are the results of the damage calc:

Bulky scizor
EVS:
108 Atk
252 HP
150 SpDef


Clefable:
EVs:
252 Def
128 HP
128 SpAtk

128 SpA Clefable Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 150 SpD Scizor: 300-356 (87.2 - 103.48%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

108+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 128 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (53.16 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is using 40 base power bullet punch and 110 base power fire blast.

Bulky Mega Scizor wins 75% of the time.


Haven't done this much number crunching in pokemon since gen 2. It brings back some good memories. Sure is easier to do the number crunching now though. ._.
Fun fun.


Clefable only have a 25% chance to OHKO bulky mega scizor.
Don't forget to take fire blast down to 110 power.


Fire Blast accuracy sucks, but as we all know, its better to be able to counter your weaknesses than to check them.
As I said in the previous post, I see it the other way around. I'd rather be sure to do SOME damage rather than having a good chance at doing NO damage.
But to each his own. Ya know? :D



Also just a random update to everyone. Have yall checked out mega genger? If you'd like some free wins on your x/y game. Grab a Timid Genger with shadowball/sludgewave/anything you want/D-Bond and wreck faces. That set is guaranteed a minimum of 2 kills every game. It's a monster.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 12:00:36 am by Roloc »
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